Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to Real Talk on Talent, a human resources podcast where we talk about talent acquisition, recruiting and all things hiring. Hi Dita, hi Hilary. Welcome to the podcast. Oh, thank you, thrilled to be back what are we talking about today?

Speaker 2: 0:26

We're going to talk about data today. Man data Exciting.

Speaker 1: 0:30

Way too excited about data, Although, to be fair, in the last podcast it was kind of the Hilary show because I just yammered on about marketing.

Speaker 2: 0:37

Well, I mean, that is kind of your area of expertise. It's literally my career, yeah.

Speaker 1: 0:42

Today's going to be your show. It's going to be the Dina show today. Dina the data something or another Diva.

Speaker 2: 0:48

There we go. Oh, dina, the data diva. Yes, I love alliteration. It also matches your initials too, it really?

Speaker 1: 0:55

does. Honestly, you nailed that one, perfect, all right.

Speaker 2: 0:57

So we're going to talk about data.

Speaker 1: 0:58

Okay, before we jump into data, can we set a little bit of framework for the discussion? I think we can. So I think it's fair to anyone who's listening to this where data is so complex as a topic, and what we're going to talk about today is first, you have five or six kind of key data pillars or breakdowns, right, so we're going to focus in on that. But first I kind of want to just set the groundwork and say, when we talk about data and reporting, it seems so obvious to be like yeah, it's important, but can you just pretend you're talking to a client and tell me the most essential thing I need to know about data?

Speaker 2: 1:39

Yeah, so any strategic talent acquisition leader is going to make data-driven decisions and if you want to move your organization forward in the world of talent, you need to leverage the data. You have to identify opportunities to improve, to identify gaps and to get yourself at a higher position within the organization, and when I say higher position, to put more visibility on the work that you're doing. Data is a universal language and data is often the language of executives, so we all know that HR isn't always included in the boardroom. It's not always included in leadership. One way to get there is by really making data-driven decisions and looking at the information you have available and telling the story around.

Speaker 1: 2:33

That I love that I'd also say, kind of to pile on to that, is saying using data to be able to connect your work to other divisions and the other goals of your business, not just your business goals at large, but saying how is recruiting or talent acquisition or HR relevant to what a CFO cares about 100%? And you can't do I mean I shouldn't say you can't do that through storytelling, but it's really going to be the numbers that make that difference. Correct Absolutely. And do TA leaders struggle with that?

Speaker 2: 3:06

So I think that it's going to depend on where they are within their life cycle, the sophistication of the function itself, what tools and resources they have. So in an ideal world, you have kind of your source of truth for all of your data.

Speaker 1: 3:19

Yeah, which we talked about in. Was it last time? No, two times ago technology.

Speaker 2: 3:25

So ideally, your ATS should tell you most of the information that you need from a data perspective. Sometimes you know you're looking at a few different systems to paint the whole picture, but it's a really good idea to have one centralized system to help you to really be your source of truth and help you to understand. This is where the information is and this is where I need to go.

Speaker 1: 3:45

Yes, and one thing I really am passionate about when it comes to one source of truth is that data can be spliced so many different ways, so you can find a dozen stories from one data set, and if you want to track, like, make those data-driven decisions, you have to track the same thing over and over again, and so you have to be consistent in where you get the data, the parameters of your reporting and how that plays into it. Yes, okay, absolutely. I feel like it's a good kind of why you should care. Synopsis I think it's perfect. So, thinking about, so let's in this, stepping into, like, the five types of data that we want to talk about today, I shouldn't say five types of data.

Speaker 2: 4:29

So I think there's six because I've decided to add one. This is like the Deloitte maturity cycle all over again.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Yeah, yeah, but what do we want to call them? Because they're not data sets, but it's types of report or data that's important to a TA leader.

Speaker 2: 4:42

So I'm going to dumb it down. Please report or data that's important to a TA leader, so I'm going to dumb it down, please do. And I'm going to say that there's five buckets of data or six buckets of data. Can we use the term bucket? Whatever you want. Sure, for simplicity purpose, we're going to call them buckets.

Speaker 1: 4:53

Reports Sure. Reporting types Sure, okay, you were the math person. I was an English minor in college and so I really very much care about I see the words we use.

Speaker 2: 5:04

I see all right um, you can upgrade buckets to what whatever you'd like to stick with buckets for now.

Speaker 1: 5:11

Okay, um, so you have your ATS let's say it's your source of truth and you have all of these pieces of data. What do you do?

Speaker 2: 5:24

Yeah, so if you're currently not using any reporting, anything like that, the first bucket that we'll talk about today is kind of the essential data points, and this is what I like to think of as your job numbers, and so this is if you were to have a recruitment dashboard that says this is where we are today, this is what it would include. So this is your current number of open positions, your vacancy rate, your recs per recruiter, the average age of your open jobs, and these are all things that are relevant to simply at the job level of your world, correct?

Speaker 2: 6:02

Yeah, it's really kind of the baseline data. So this is the baseline that you're able to that you should be looking at on a week by week basis. Okay, so's really kind of the baseline data. So this is the baseline that you're able to that you should be looking at on a week by week basis.

Speaker 1: 6:10

Okay. So can I ask you this, Because it's like okay, number of open recs. If you're using an ATS, why would you not already have that number?

Speaker 2: 6:18

Yeah, so think of reporting out. So you do have that number but if you're reporting out information to the executive team to whomever it is you're going to want them to know that, hey, our recs have increased by 20%. This means that I need to add additional head count. Yeah, okay, so that's why I like to you know.

Speaker 1: 6:34

It's kind of that's the information that you're reporting out, and that makes sense that that would kind of be the first bucket, because your entire job as a talent acquisition team is to fill positions Correct which are indicated by Open Rex. Okay, exactly, love that, yep.

Speaker 3: 6:50

There we go.

Speaker 1: 6:50

Anything else we need to talk about for Job Rex?

Speaker 2: 6:52

So I mean, I think that one's pretty straightforward. It's the fundamental foundational information. Okay, Good.

Speaker 1: 6:58

It seems like quick. Actually, I do have a question on that. It seems like there would be some pretty strong intersection with like operational teams, like the hiring manager side. Is that fair, or are we thinking just in the TA kind of process? So how would you approach that intersection?

Speaker 2: 7:14

So I think there are a couple different places to approach that intersection, but I don't think it's in this first bucket.

Speaker 1: 7:21

All right, yeah, well then let's keep that. Let's put a pin in that. We're gonna put a pin in it, okay, good.

Speaker 2: 7:26

Bucket two, bucket two, so bucket two recruiter performance metrics. Okay, so at Human we do a very good job at looking at our recruiter performance on a week over week basis and you are able to roll that up we love our recruiter scorecards.

Speaker 2: 7:41

Yes, we do, and then you can roll that up to get an aggregate of divisional functional performance, whatever it is. So these are things like how many submissions did you have this week, how many interviews did you have this week, how many hires, how many candidates did you source, etc. So these are really data points that tell us how effective is our recruitment team being. So I like it for that.

Speaker 1: 8:08

And so then, when you pair it up with the first bucket of the jobs, you say jobs is almost like the goal, like how many jobs are open. That's kind of the vision of what needs to get done. And then the recruiter metrics are. What does our day to day look like?

Speaker 2: 8:23

What does our day to day look like and what is our progress towards?

Speaker 1: 8:26

filling those jobs. And then how do you like in your time, when you were on the RPO side and helping manage, you know, operational teams, how did you use those recruiter performance metrics to make things better or identify a problem Like can you give us a little more detail about what a TA leader may want to use recruiter performance metrics to fix or to?

Speaker 2: 8:47

identify yeah. So first, I think it's a great opportunity to benchmark, to understand.

Speaker 1: 8:55

Like recruiter to recruiter. Benchmark Recruiter to recruiter.

Speaker 2: 8:58

And then also to understand what capacity is appropriate for a recruiter. So we know that let's just say for a particular job. So we know that let's just say for a particular job, type 45 is the appropriate number of requisitions. When a recruiter gets 55 recs, we're going to see their productivity drop because all of a sudden there's too much on their plate. And so you're able to look at recruiter performance week over week and calibrate the different data points to figure out okay, this recruiter is most productive at this level, and so that's why I like it from a benchmarking perspective. And then also, if somebody is struggling, the data is going to show you that If somebody is really, really, you know crushing their goals every week, let's figure out what they're doing and let's share that with the rest of the team.

Speaker 1: 9:42

Yeah, it seems like you could also do a little bit of like reverse engineering to say, okay, if we're going to have a crunch time, let's say we're having a little bit of seasonality and we need to. Everyone needs to make one more hire a month. Then you could use those performance metrics to say, well, if you back up, if you do 10 more phone calls a day, if you can just find a way to get those in, that'll, that's how you get there Exactly. Love that. Yeah, there we go. Okay, so you need to know your job information. So, looking at your job related data points to understand how do you say it, what needs to get done or where we're going.

Speaker 1: 10:18

Where we're going, where we're going and then we need to know recruiter performance metrics, because then that's going to help us know how we're getting there, exactly Okay.

Speaker 2: 10:27

And then what's the next one? So next one is your speed metrics.

Speaker 3: 10:31

Okay.

Speaker 2: 10:31

And so speed metrics, think of things. Time to fill, time to hire. When can a manager expect to see the candidate they're going to hire?

Speaker 2: 10:42

So like time between stages, time between stages, all of those things, and so I love this for setting expectations. On my team. I can tell you the average time to fill for nearly every job function. We have our ATS set up that way so I can look and say an accounting and finance leadership job on average takes us 43 days to fill. And time metrics our speed metrics are great at setting expectations and time metrics are. Speed metrics are great at setting expectations. So we like to go into intake calls knowing that these types of positions on average take 60 days. We're going to tell managers up front. This is what you can expect.

Speaker 1: 11:15

I also really like speed metrics from a marketing standpoint, because if there's ever like a hiring blitz, like again going seasonality.

Speaker 1: 11:22

If we say, okay, we need to hire 100 people over, let's just say 90 days, and I know that the average time to fill is 45 days I don't actually have 90 days. I have 45 days to fill the candidate pipeline, and then after that it's kind of like all right, we can do everything we can, but if you have a 45 day time to fill on average, you have to front load it, and so I talked to my team about that all the time I'm like okay, what kind of roles are these?

Speaker 1: 11:50

What does that look like? And at what point is there kind of a what's the point of no return? But isn't there more formal Diminishing returns? No, no, it's something in like. It's like an aviation. Yes, this is but an aviation. It might just be the point of no return, okay, but it's like a point in aviation when, like, you're flying across the ocean, okay, it's like you reach a point where you can't go back anymore.

Speaker 2: 12:12

okay I'm not familiar with that term. Yeah, we're gonna have. It's probably just the point of no return. Okay, there we go. I'm trying to get fancy with it anyway um, but you know what, though? You bring up a good point. Yeah, another benefit of understanding your speed metrics is for business reasons. You're opening up a new location. You need to staff that location. You know that this position takes 30 days. This one takes 90 days.

Speaker 1: 12:34

You're able to retrofit, reverse, retrofit your staffing plan, so love it for those reasons as well, and that makes sense when you frame it up in that context. It makes sense why you would separate your speed metrics from your recruiter performance metrics, because they're very much intertwined. They absolutely are. But, like to your point, speed can be how quickly is your recruiter working? But speed can be such a you can use it in such a broader sense. So that was actually gonna be a question of like why do you separate them? But you proactively answered that there we go.

Speaker 2: 13:09

I mean, and it's for those reasons, if you look at just a recruiter alone, I can say that this recruiter's average time to fill is 47. This one's 54. But if you look at, there's different types of jobs that they're working on, different hiring managers, there's all these different variables. So I mean we could slice it 155 different ways if we wanted to. We can, we can. Okay, that seems like a great podcast too. Slice it 100 different ways.

Speaker 1: 13:33

Yeah, Maybe not. Okay, I just went. I was like it's probably not a talent acquisition podcast.

Speaker 2: 13:38

I was thinking slice that particular data point, let's put a pin in this one. It's going to be a pizza podcast.

Speaker 1: 13:42

Pizza podcast, that's what that one is. You like round, or?

Speaker 2: 13:45

square pizzas. I love it, I love it, I love it All.

Speaker 1: 13:47

Right going back, we have job performance, yep or no, no job, jobs, job metrics. Your recruiter performance metrics Recruiter performance, your speed metrics.

Speaker 2: 13:57

Your speed metrics, what's for Performance ratios? Okay, tell me about that. So performance ratios think how many candidates do you have to submit to get a hire? How many candidates do you have to submit to get an interview? So performance ratios are good for A setting expectations with your hiring managers. On average, you can expect to see four candidates. You're going to hire one out of four of those candidates.

Speaker 1: 14:19

Which side note. I love that because if you know that on average you hire four out of one, that means you don't have to have a hiring manager looking at 15 candidates, three hires, you only need one. And we know a lot of times hiring managers feel like the more candidates, the better the recruiter is, and this is a way to kind of bypass that.

Speaker 2: 14:42

Exactly and I'm glad that you said that because that leads into the other benefit of performance ratios. It is an excellent diagnostic tool. It is a great way to troubleshoot where your process is broken or where there is an opportunity with, let's just say, perhaps a difficult hiring manager. You know there's that hiring manager who maybe does want to see 15 candidates, everybody else is. You know we're making hires elsewhere with four. So there's some power in that piece of information going back to that hiring manager saying, hey, let's talk about this.

Speaker 1: 15:16

And why do you separate performance ratios from like recruiter performance metrics?

Speaker 2: 15:22

Yeah, so I think performance ratios this is really a cadence, this is a factor of cadence. So I want to look at a recruiter's performance on a weekly basis Performance ratios. You need a fairly large data set to do that.

Speaker 1: 15:38

So it's more looking at your candidate funnel at large as opposed to the daily efforts of your recruiter. Correct, like the hand rush, it's like your funnel, and then this is how a recruiter works.

Speaker 2: 15:45

Yes, yes there we go yeah, I would say. Typically, what I like to do is re-pull my performance ratios on a quarterly basis.

Speaker 1: 15:53

Okay, and what is the first thing you look for when you pull those performance ratios?

Speaker 2: 15:58

Yeah, so I like to go from top of the funnel to higher, so I want to know what my submission to higher ratio is.

Speaker 1: 16:04

And you're just watching for changes in ratios. Are you looking for, like do you, kind of a gut check of what's a bad ratio?

Speaker 2: 16:09

Yeah, so we do some benchmarking internally. We know that different industries have higher ratios, different job types have different ratios. We have what we would like. We would like a four to one ratio. That would be kind of be our gold standard. Doesn't always happen, but I would love it if we could submit four candidates and it comes out with one higher.

Speaker 1: 16:31

And to kind of go way back up the candidate funnel. We actually do a lot of performance ratios on the marketing side. We don't call them performance ratios, but we do when we're thinking about okay, what investments do we need to make to have enough candidates? Or to say like, okay, the candidates we're getting are not high quality enough. We do the same thing in thinking about those advertising ratios. But we'll also do some splicing out of saying, when we think about the total candidate pool and we're thinking about what marketing should influence versus a recruiter, like what should be sourced, what should be organic, what should be sponsored that's another variation of it that we'll look at and think about those ratios and how they're going to ultimately break down into the recruiter, like life cycle, yeah, no love it candidate life cycle recruiter efforts for the candidate experience boom nail nice

Speaker 2: 17:20

english minor there we go, there we go, love it okay job recruiter.

Speaker 1: 17:26

Performance uh speed, uh performance ratios.

Speaker 2: 17:31

Yes, okay, we're on five turnover I was about to say I love turnover, but I just don't think anybody should say that you came in hot with turnover. So turnover is turnover. Data can tell you so much. So obviously there's voluntary, involuntary turnover in the first 90 days 90 days. So I love turnover data because it helps you figure out if there are opportunities or if there are obstacles, and so probably my two favorite data points are turnover within the first 90 days. That is traditionally an issue with selection and or recruitment, so we know that.

Speaker 2: 18:12

So it's a TA issue or a hiring manager interviewing issue. Do they know how to select the right people?

Speaker 1: 18:18

Or an expectations issue, like candidate expectations.

Speaker 2: 18:21

Candidate expectations which.

Speaker 1: 18:22

I guess would be a symptom of an issue in your recruiting and like onboarding and hiring. Yeah, is your interview Trying to add something of value it didn't add?

Speaker 2: 18:31

anything. No, it was actually a great point, is your?

Speaker 1: 18:40

interview set up appropriately. Thank you, dina. There we go, there we go. And then, oh goodness, I just lost my train of thought. Oh, I'm sorry we were talking about so. You said 90 days is traditionally within 90 days. That turnover would indicate an issue with your recruiting, hiring, onboarding process, correct. And then after 90 days.

Speaker 2: 18:54

Yeah, I think that that's just that tends to be more attributed to the actual day to day job like a manager issue, a job issue all those different ones.

Speaker 2: 19:08

Yeah, but with turnover data you can slice it by job type. You can slice it by hiring manager. One of my favorite data points is are you finding that people within a certain job type are turning over at a certain tenure? So, let's say, at Human, we find out that our recruiters tend to turn over after they've been here for two years. What does that tell us? That tells us that we can re-recruit these people before they leave the organization. So let's re-interview them and figure out how do we get them to stay.

Speaker 1: 19:32

We know turnover is expensive. So I like that, I like that. And then let's say within the 90-day period, and let's say you have, or I guess, give me an example of when you have used turnover data historically. I was going to ask you a leading question and I was like that's not a good one. So can you give us a recent example of a discussion or a project you've had with a client where you were digging into turnover and like, what did you uncover? How did you talk to the client about that, any roadblocks you ran into to help, like that, to fixing that issue? Like, can you just kind of give us a real world example? Yeah, so we actually did a.

Speaker 2: 20:13

We did a consulting project with a food company, okay, and turnover was about 74% In the first 90 days and just in general, oh, like annual.

Speaker 2: 20:22

Yeah, okay, turnover was 74%, and all they knew was that turnover was a problem and they weren't able to bring people in fast enough. And so we spent about, I would say, six weeks interviewing the recruiters, interviewing HR and interviewing hiring managers, and then we did an independent audit of their existing recruitment process the candidate pipeline, all of those everything that kind of impacts recruitment, and what we found was a couple of different things. A they lacked recruitment technology, so candidates were not able to easily find their jobs. So these were positions that ideally, you'd post on a job board and you could get 25 or 30 candidates.

Speaker 1: 21:03

Just organic, organic High volume roles, exactly.

Speaker 2: 21:07

Instead, they were getting one or two candidates, they were pushing those one or two candidates forward and, on top of it, hiring managers didn't know how to interview and identify red flags.

Speaker 1: 21:18

Okay, I love it Keep going with this.

Speaker 2: 21:19

I'm excited. Okay, so limited candidates, candidate pool to choose from, and then hiring managers didn't understand how to.

Speaker 1: 21:30

So essentially they didn't really even have a reason to interview because they moved everyone forward Correct and in interviewing they weren't actually learning anything new about the candidate or who was going to be a good fit or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 21:42

So one question we always ask people when we're doing these discoveries is how many candidates fall off at this particular stage? Yeah, so, hiring managers, how many people are you hiring when you interview? Oh, we're hiring 19 out of 20. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 21:57

I don't know if you should hire 19 out of 20. That's a really good performance ratio.

Speaker 2: 22:00

So what we did was we worked with them, we set up the technology, we integrated ATS with all the job boards and then we trained hiring managers on how to interview, identify red flags, set a realistic job preview. And it's about 15 months later and turnover is in the 40s. Now that's amazing. So there we go.

Speaker 1: 22:21

Great work, Dina, that was a fun project, Thank you. And without having an understanding of where that turnover is and what that looks like, because you kind of referenced this. But you dug into turnover not just annually but at different levels of early turnover, and so that's why you dove into the interview process specifically is because you're like, look, yeah, your annual is this, but the majority of that comes what's happening in the first 90.

Speaker 3: 22:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:47

They actually had a ton of it happening in the first 30 and we were like, ooh yeah, that's really a disconnect.

Speaker 1: 22:51

Nice, great work. Okay, so we've hit five. Is there a secret sixth? There's a secret sixth. Okay, what is?

Speaker 2: 22:57

it Financial metrics. Oh, I mean, here we go, obviously. So let's talk about your cost per hire Money money money Boom. This also includes your marketing thing. So cost per lead, cost per click when you look at how much money you are spending in different advertising sources, what is the cost per hire from each of those advertising?

Speaker 1: 23:16

sources. There's so much financial data you can look at. If you had to pick one that you would tell a TA leader is the most important number to know. What is it?

Speaker 2: 23:29

Oh, that is a that I need a minute on this one. Hillary Wow, Can I pick 10? No one, no, the like one. They have 30 seconds at the boardroom to this one, Hillary Wow.

Speaker 1: 23:35

Can I pick 10? No one. No the one. They have 30 seconds at the boardroom to give one data point. Uh-huh.

Speaker 2: 23:42

Oh gosh, I'm torn between time to fill and cost per hire.

Speaker 1: 23:47

Well, I asked about financial data. Oh, financial, then cost per hire.

Speaker 2: 23:51

That's mine, I was like I'm really surprised that you have Okay, wait. I was like I'm really surprised that you have Okay, wait. No, I'm like going back through all the buckets here. Well, that is good, that's a good call out the time to fill in cost per hire.

Speaker 1: 24:00

I think cost per hire was mine for sure. Yeah, nice, awesome. Anything else on the financial piece, I feel like we kind of touched on it, but there's so much on like financial tracking and data, I mean, you know.

Speaker 2: 24:17

So I think there's just a ton you can do with it, but I think that that's a good overview.

Speaker 1: 24:19

Okay, awesome, yeah. So let's just quickly go over the five buckets. Okay, six buckets, again Six buckets, okay. So you have job data and job reports, and then you have recruiter performance metrics Correct. And then you have speed metrics. You have performance ratios yes, you have, it was financial, financial was number six.

Speaker 2: 24:43

Financial was six Turnover Turnover. Whitney's trying to give me a visual reference.

Speaker 1: 24:48

I was like I see it, it's not clicking. Nice. Thank you, Dina.

Speaker 3: 24:53

Thank you, I love that.

Speaker 1: 24:55

Anything else to share with our audience? Um, I broke my arm guys. Oh my gosh, we didn't even start there. I'm so sorry I broke my arm um do you want to tell us the story?

Speaker 2: 25:04

I was playing soccer, um, and I was subbing in for goalie and I, you know, somebody shot a ball in the upper 90 and I did this crazy diving save and I came down on my arm and we won the championship well, 50, 50% of that is true. That's what we're going with guys.

Speaker 1: 25:19

Well, the soccer is true, the goalie is true and the Dina's amazing is true.

Speaker 2: 25:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:26

Also, what you did not mention and this is true is this happened during halftime. It did, and then you finished the game.

Speaker 2: 25:34

I did keep playing with a broken arm. I did. I did Tough cookie. They said Hard worker. There we go.

Speaker 1: 25:40

So what do we have?

Speaker 2: 25:41

We've got a couple weeks, yeah, four to six weeks.

Speaker 1: 25:44

Okay, so yeah, well, good, I am sorry that you couldn't get a pink cast. I'm a little bit bummed out by that.

Speaker 2: 25:52

I know I was kind of excited. I was going to get signatures on it and everything. I'm sorry. Well, this looks very nice. Yeah, it's actually much better than you know the plaster cast. So I know, there we go Expectations.

Speaker 1: 26:04

Yeah, hey, do we have any correction sections today?

Speaker 2: 26:11

I know what we have today. Oh, you remember May I Correction section. I'm never gonna get over that. It's so wild, okay. So this one was regarding strength finders. Oh yeah, maximizer. So I pulled up my strength finder score. I'm actually not a maximizer, I lied about that but I figured out where it came from. So we had this gentleman in many years ago to talk to us and he wrote a book called Freak Factor and in there he listed out different kind of characteristics of people Maximizer, that's where I figured that from.

Speaker 1: 26:46

That's where. So what's your strength finder? What's your number one strength finder? My?

Speaker 2: 26:48

number one, optimistic, Honestly. That works. You know that is very true Positive things happen to positive people.

Speaker 1: 27:01

That works. You know, that is very true. Positive things happen to positive people.

Speaker 3: 27:03

That's true. Create your own luck. There we go. Yes, yes, love that. All right. And now time for hot takes on hot topics. So return to office has led to landlords and employers to revamp spaces to attract people back to the office which you know, we all love Um. But the way they've been doing this isn't just with fancy coffee machines, They've now been implementing golf simulators. So at four to five Lexington Avenue in New York, a golf simulator was added adjacent to the fitness center where staff can practice their technique.

Speaker 1: 27:34

It's a very specific employee audience here, concur, so my question for you is if you had to choose one unconventional amenity for work, what would?

Speaker 2: 27:45

it be A spa Spa. I want a full spa. You wouldn't work Well, you know, in between calls you need a massage very quickly for an hour and a half. Very quick 90 minutes Go ahead.

Speaker 1: 27:58

Dina has 30 minutes every 90 minutes where she can work.

Speaker 2: 28:02

If you guys will excuse me, I've got a 30-minute call and then I have a 90-minute massage booked.

Speaker 1: 28:07

So okay, realistically, you'd have like a massage therapist. You could come to your desk and like massage your shoulders and stuff.

Speaker 2: 28:14

No, I mean, I'm thinking of like a full spa here, Like it would be. So this is not realistic. So well, let me tell you this it is like there are oftentimes I'm going to a conference or something and I'm like, oh gosh, I need to get a manicure and pedicure before I go. Whatever it is, it would be great if there were some type of amenities on site. And you could see if you were in a large. You know if you were in a city in a big building you know, yeah, wishful thinking no, that's a great idea.

Speaker 1: 28:41

I was just trying to fall because, honestly, I like I'm picturing your calendar where it's like 99 30 phone call, 9 30 to 11 out of pocket, yeah, and then like recurring throughout the day. Um, mine would be a nap pod, oh.

Speaker 2: 28:54

I'm big time into that.

Speaker 1: 28:55

Nap pod, because then like 20 minute power naps. Also, if you have not read Ariana Huffington's book on sleep, it is fabulous and it's that and thrive not related to sleep, but highly recommend. We as a society are chronically overworked and underslept and if you can get enough sleep, there are so many studies that show how much more productive we are. So being able to say like 2.30 in the afternoon, you have your slump, instead of going and like jittering out on coffee. If you take your 20 minute power nap, you come back. I'm so into it.

Speaker 1: 29:37

I love naps. Also, if you had a nap room with meditation, so if you just needed a moment to just go sit in the dark and just have it be silent and like Zen music playing.

Speaker 2: 29:52

I like that. I don't know, I like that.

Speaker 1: 29:54

That's my.

Speaker 2: 29:55

I mean, in reality we could sleep under our desk now.

Speaker 1: 29:59

That's not a bad idea if I bring like blackout curtains and like put them around my desk and then just like crawl underneath, I'm out, I'm out, get a dog bed underneath.

Speaker 2: 30:06

I may have done that when I had a headache during lunch before.

Speaker 1: 30:09

I'm not See, but here's my point is saying there's nothing wrong with that, there's really not, but you had to crawl under your desk, whereas if you had a dedicated space and you could have it.

Speaker 3: 30:21

Wake you up, yeah clearly not recently.

Speaker 1: 30:25

Okay, I think you're great. Actually, whitney, what's yours?

Speaker 3: 30:30

craft beer on tap in the cafeteria sounds good, so you.

Speaker 1: 30:35

So you get your massage, get your craft beer, take a nap Boom. This is why we're not in charge of making decisions on offices.

Speaker 3: 30:43

We're not. Sounds like a golden trio to me.

Speaker 1: 30:45

Yes, Maybe they should put us in charge.

Speaker 2: 30:47

There we go All right.

Speaker 1: 30:48

Dina. Hey, thank you very much, always a pleasure. Oh next time, next time, oh surprise topic Surprise topic Next time.

Speaker 2: 30:55

oh, next time, next time we don't. Oh, surprise topic, next time, surprise topic. Yes, yes, gift wrapped with a bow.

Speaker 1: 30:59

Yes, okay, for your birthday. There we go. All right, bye everyone, bye, bye.