Hilary: 0:06

Welcome to Real Talk on Talent, a human resources podcast where we talk about talent acquisition, recruiting and all things hiring. We said we were going to start with our professional podcast personas and then immediately we went full. Romeo, we went full, you know, listen this is part of navigating workplace dynamics is understanding how you need to show up at what particular time we needed to start with a bang because we were not in the zone, so we needed that, so we kind of flipped it on the switch.

Dina: 0:42

I like it. Yeah Well, welcome. Hey, great to be here.

Hilary: 0:44

It's been a while.

Dina: 0:45

It has been a while yeah, yeah, what's new in your world?

Hilary: 0:50

You know, ironically, a whole bunch of people, stuff going on, ah seems like we should talk about people which is what we're going to talk about today.

Dina: 1:02

Let's do it. My favorite topic is me, that's why we're on the podcast.

Hilary: 1:07

They're like just go talk about yourself. No that's like half true. It's a little scary, no, but we did have a real topic.

Dina: 1:14

Yeah, we did, we did. Yes, yeah, you kick us off Because it was your idea, it was my idea Today. Idea Today we are going to talk about how you have to show up at work differently for different audiences and kind of navigating, being the authentic version of yourself, the professional version of yourself, the manager, the leader, whatever it is.

Hilary: 1:39

You have to be a different person in different scenarios, exactly. I do want to say, though for me it's so important that it's always authentic to who I am 100%, but it's you kind of have to play into the audience that you're with. Yes, kind of like, if you're out with your parents or you're out with your girlfriends, you're going to show up a little bit differently.

Dina: 1:57

Exactly so.

Hilary: 1:57

it's kind of your rules of engagement within the respective group that you're interacting with and I do think I really like this topic because I think it's particularly I don't know if importance is the right word difficult expected. It's particularly expected for women in the workforce, and I think that's a really important topic to think about is as a woman, how do you navigate those expectations but still be yourself and be able to show up in that authentic way? Yes, absolutely Okay, I agree. So we started out with rodeo, yeah, there we go, there we go Uh-huh, how do you want to approach this?

Hilary: 2:31

You know so, I know. Okay, what's your favorite persona? Just me, what is that? Just me? When does that?

Dina: 2:39

show up. What does that look like? Yeah, great question. Um, so I do think I'm fortunate that I have been with human for quite a while, so I've got a great relationship with the existing leadership team. Yep, so when we are offsite having our strategic planning sessions, when I can be my true self which, by the way, I'm a little bit quirky, um, but I can also be quirky, thoughtful, intelligent and get stuff done, that's what I like. I like the opportunity.

Hilary: 3:11

And you call it yourself because you feel unbridled. In those moments you're not playing a part. You're like Dina is here to solve a problem, to have fun while doing that, exactly, is that kind of what you think, mom? I think that's fair. I would say. When I think about that Dina person, the things that I find really impressive are that you do have this ability to see things differently and to look and say like hey, we haven't thought about this way, or like I'm going to challenge that. And you're really direct to like in a very kind way. But you're really good at saying like okay, listen, guys, the business needs this. This is how we're showing up and let's have fun while we're doing it.

Hilary: 3:46

Usually a Harry Potter reference or two or two, yeah, so um yeah yeah, I mean, is it that probably wasn't a fair question, because it should be because your favorite should always be the one where you're unbridled and don't have to think about how you show up. You know well. There's your default, which is your normal persona or your default professional businesswoman.

Dina: 4:12

And that's the thing. So we are in unique positions where we interact a lot with our clients and our partners, and me particularly, and you to a certain extent. My clients by and large are private equity firms and very traditional, very traditional and just different than who we as a recruitment organization may be interfacing with at some of, let's say, a hospital, chro for example, and so I think for me, when I started working within the private equity space about four years ago, it was a learning curve to understand.

Dina: 4:51

They're different. Conversations it's a different, content is different, talking points are different, meeting rhythms are different, and so I think that is the lesson for anybody is how do you understand the audience that you're meeting with and how do you figure out what is the appropriate talking points?

Hilary: 5:12

your work life it's because you deal with different people Like you and I can interact in a certain way and we can have certain conversations, but as a leader, I have to show up, and I still am. You could probably ask my team or anyone that works with me. I still am silly and do ridiculous things.

Dina: 5:38

Um which is why we love you Thank you.

Hilary: 5:40

Well, you know, I'm not overly buttoned up, I mean, I'm literally not even buttoned up, but I have to show up differently. The expectation is that I have a level of authority, knowledge, give protection to my people, like that kind of thing. Yeah.

Dina: 5:55

Well, and I think it's interesting, like so. I remember when I was in college, graduating college, I had my nose pierced, did you really? I did.

Hilary: 6:05

I did not know that.

Dina: 6:05

Just like on the side. Yeah, just a cute little stud, which, by the way, I would do again, but probably not the best move for me professionally, honestly.

Hilary: 6:14

Well, with your, yeah, it's kind of tough because that's also changing.

Dina: 6:18

So I remember when I was in college and we were doing like mock interviews for career days and the teacher was like, dean, you're going to have to take your nose ring out if you want to get a job. And I was like, oh, that's ridiculous, I'm not going to have to take my nose ring out to get a job. So I did take my nose ring out to get a job because ultimately, that was the right thing to do. But I think there is a struggle with people to figure out how can you still be an authentic version of yourself that's appropriate for the situation that you're going into. I think if people try to go into a situation and be completely, you know, inauthentic, unauthentic, inauthentic, inauthentic, fake, sure, not themselves. Okay, you know that is. That's not a good place for anybody.

Hilary: 7:08

Yeah, this kind of goes back to I think we were talking about. It was one of the hot takes where it was like you have to lie to get a job and it's like, if you have to lie to get a job, like that's probably not the job that you want or a company you want to be in. Yes, I think there's something similar, but I have, because I actually had this conversation with someone on my team last week where we were talking about, like tattoos, where some companies still have a rule where you cannot have visible tattoos at all, and that is something where I can understand, like not wanting face tattoos, because there's still a very strong like social response to that, yeah.

Hilary: 7:48

But for me I'm like who cares if you've got a like a sleeve, and I feel like that's changing.

Dina: 7:55

So yes, I think that's changing, but I think there's, I think there's so much more that goes into that decision, you know so.

Hilary: 8:02

I so About hiring people with tattoos in general.

Dina: 8:06

just people's thought process on what is acceptable in the workplace and what's not acceptable in the workplace, and so I think about this. We have worked with a lot of hospital clients and, um, for a very long time it was no tattoos in the workplace. Um, there are still some of our hospital clients that say that, correct, and I don't really know where I'm going with this talk track.

Hilary: 8:30

So I'm going to save you on this one. I want it because you're like it. There is still this perspective of it. Yeah, and I guess what I'm interested to dive into on this is we talk about how we show up and we have multiple ways that we present ourselves. We show up as leaders, we show up as peers, we show up as just who cares. I've had a day like I'm here, but more and more I think that the expectation of showing up a certain way is changing and but not all companies have changed policy to match that. Yeah, yeah. So I guess the question is, when you think about having entered the workforce as a young employee and had to take your nose ring out to where we are today, do you think that it was wrong that you had to take your nose ring out, and that you have, and that you have to show up as a certain way?

Dina: 9:21

No, Okay, why not? Because I am being employed by somebody to represent their business and help them meet their business goals.

Hilary: 9:34

But you and I talked about this is you're showing up as a. You are now the face. You and I are the face of the company. Yeah, so we have to show up a certain way because we're being paid to literally represent them. But if I have someone, well, we're Whitney. Whitney is here, she is actively a part of this, but you can't see her. Does that matter?

Dina: 9:57

Yeah, Great question. So I think you're right. This is a. This is a really complex issue.

Hilary: 10:09

Well, it's just interesting because we just say, we just accept it, and it is a reflection that we talked about this earlier. We as humans just do that Like you interact with people differently. But I'm just thinking about so. So many like tech companies, for example, have really thrown that idea of like you have to put on your work outfit and you have to show up and do your work stuff. There's a there's a push against that Like, just show up and do the work.

Dina: 10:29

Who cares? Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with who. Who are your customers and what are your customers expectations?

Hilary: 10:42

Well. So I'm going to challenge that in the sense of, because I want to talk about you and me as people who are our customers in our jobs, because what I mean by that is, like human has customers, but you and I, in our lives, in our careers. In order to make certain moves, you got to get the buy-in from certain people, right? So if that's the case, then I'm not just representing human to human partners, I'm representing Hillary as I sell my career.

Dina: 11:12

Yep, and then we're also how are we? Representing our teams? How? How do we show up as leaders as well? So that's that's you know. Another consideration, I think it is. It's about understanding all of the dynamics that go into a business. Okay, say more about that. So I'm thinking specifically about some of my private equity partners. Okay, and I'm going to make some assumptions here. I could be wrong. Have at it.

Hilary: 11:39

We make decisions based on assumptions all the time. There we go wrong have at it.

Dina: 11:42

We make decisions based on assumptions all the time. There we go. Yeah, probably showing up in a denim mechanic suit to a private equity firm isn't going to be a good good look for me, but if you think about who is partnering with private equity firms, it is often large institutional investors who are coming with high dollars, and it's often individuals with a really high network. So what you want to do is make sure that whoever you're putting forth in front of these individuals is going to make them very comfortable in the work that you're doing. Yes, so what is the ultimate persona to make these individuals very comfortable in what you're doing? Yes, so what is the ultimate persona to make these individuals very comfortable?

Hilary: 12:25

in what you're doing. It's so funny, okay. So I actually had this conversation with someone recently my mom about politics, okay, and it was like how come in politics we're so caught up on like how tall people are, like what their tie color looks, like, like why can't we just look at their resume and like make decisions and I'm comparing this into the workplace as well why can't we just look at someone's resume and go off of their credentials? Yeah, that is so not human nature. To the point that there was a um. It was, I believe it was the Kennedy Nixon election. Okay, recent past, okay, I'm like 95% sure those were the two people.

Dina: 13:05

Okay.

Hilary: 13:06

But it would, I could. It could be wrong with Whitney, thank you, Um, but it was for sure, kennedy. So it was the. So it was a presidential election and it was the first one where they had a televised debate. Okay, and so Kennedy went and got a movie like makeup artist to do his makeup in preparation for the debate. Yep, and I think it was whoever his component opponent was got a theater actor to do his makeup, which did not translate well on TV at all, so he looked really sickly.

Hilary: 13:37

It was really bad. So they then did polls after and found that people who watched the debate on TV thought that Kennedy won Okay, and people people who watched the debate on TV thought that Kennedy won Okay, and people who listened to it on the radio thought that Kennedy lost. Uh-huh Interesting and it all simply had to do with how they looked. Yeah, oh, 100%, and so I think it brings up a good point. Yeah, should we have to put on this facade? Yeah, no, but that's how people make decisions.

Dina: 14:00

I think it's how people you're 100% correct, it's how people make decisions. And I also think that it is a bit of respect too. If I am going to somebody and I'm saying, hey, you should partner with human, you should trust us to help all of your companies with their recruitment needs. I'm going to, I am going to show up polished and professional.

Hilary: 14:22

You gave me your time and I'm going to respect that time Exactly and I'm going to bring my A game. I like that.

Dina: 14:27

So you know, I also think there's kind of a respect component.

Hilary: 14:30

So if you had to give young Dina advice or you think about the people you manage today, yeah, yeah, what would you tell them on, like how to show up, yeah, and how to navigate the different?

Dina: 14:40

personas, so to show up and how to navigate the different personas. So first, I think it's important to understand as an individual, regardless of your situation and scenario, what are you really good at, what are you great at? Oh, interesting, okay, and make sure that you're showing up with those things. So, for me, I tend to show up as highly confident, highly capable and I have a really good understanding of all things recruitment. So, regardless of my scenario, I am going to consistently show up as confident, capable and well-informed on what it is that I have to do. So then, how does that?

Hilary: 15:13

change. So how does that Like? Is that? Are those the three things that are always there and then the packaging around it changes? I think it's the packaging around it that changes. Interesting.

Dina: 15:21

I think it's the packaging around it that changes. I think it's the packaging around it that changes. It's, you know, I mean Josh gosh things. You know small talk. What do you do? You know? I mean just little things like that. How professional are you? You know, when we have a call internally, I mean we have fun on those calls, but you know we're probably not going to, I don't know be chatting memes to each other during a team's meeting with a client.

Hilary: 15:45

Yeah, Depending on. I have some clients I do yeah, yeah, but that's.

Dina: 15:49

I get it, yeah, yeah. So I think it's, I think it's all around how you package things up. I like that, yeah, show up with your, your kind of the pillars of your authentic self and then package them appropriately. Authentic self and then package them appropriately. Hillary, let's be authentic self for this outro. Hillary, let's dance out for everybody. No, I can't, I can't. I support you.

Hilary: 16:23

We're going to dance out our authentic self. Honestly, I think that is the best way to end this episode.

Dina: 16:27

I mean, I don't see a better way. What just happened? Oh no, I think it's a pretty good way. No, all I'm saying is we're done. Oh, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. It really was good.