Employer Recruitment Tactics and Advice

Speaker 2 0:06

Welcome to Real Talk on Talent , a human resources podcast where we talk about talent acquisition , recruiting and all things hiring . Hey , dina , hi , hilary , do you want to do a special episode ? I totally do , okay , okay .

Speaker 3 0:25

What do you want to do ? A special episode , I totally do . Okay , okay , what do you want to do ? I would love for us to react to people's videos . Is this the idea you just had ? Oh my God , yes , let's do it . Okay , that sounds perfect .

Speaker 2 0:37

I think Whitney picked out some for us to look at . I think she did . And then we're like I think she did , whitney picked out some videos for us . She did , she did , and they're all related to hiring and employment .

Speaker 3 0:49

Yes , let's watch them . Oh , I think so . This is gonna be great .

Speaker 1 0:52

All right , fine I'm sorry to have to come back to this , but there is a concerning trend affecting the job market right now that everyone needs to know about . So companies are doing something right now called ghost job postings , where they are posting jobs online with no intention of hiring for those positions . This means thousands of people probably you at some point will apply to a job online for absolutely no reason and not hear back , thinking it's your fault , when it's not . Companies are doing this for a few reasons . Number one they're trying to make it look like they're growing and successful to maybe competitors or other people in the market .

Speaker 2 1:28

Okay , have you ever ?

Speaker 3 1:29

had a client . No , admit to that . Yeah , no , I've never Like , so I know people do .

Speaker 2 1:34

evergreen positions where you're constantly recruiting for a position , but that's because you have a steady stream of openings you have to fill .

Speaker 3 1:40

Yeah , I've never heard of somebody posting fake jobs to look like they're growing Never . No , I'm calling BS on this one . I kind of want to dig into that a little bit more .

Speaker 2 1:53

It's an interesting thought , but when I look at it it's like there are so many ways to validate if an individual is growing . Linkedin , for example , will actually say how many people have changed roles into it , so you could super easily disprove . Oh , you have a thousand openings , but you've only hired 15 people in the last three months .

Speaker 3 2:12

Yeah , so what I'm thinking about is the action , like so there are jobs that are posted that are not actual jobs . That has happened forever . So like , give me an example . Yeah , so first this idea of evergreen requisition . Yeah but that's a real job though , but not necessarily so . Let's use an example that a company , a pest control company , is going to continuously keep a technician job open year round . What they're trying to do is fill up the pipeline of candidates within there for when they need to do peak season hiring .

Speaker 1 2:48

And two they're creating sort of a standby list so they have some names ready in case they ever decide to .

Speaker 3 2:53

They need to do that differently , so companies need to do that differently . You should be really transparent that , hey , we're building a talent pipeline . Well , that's where a talent community comes in .

Speaker 2 3:02

Talent community , exactly Like . That's different than having a job position open . But my thing is if you do hire throughout the year , you can have two benefits . You can get candidates so that your database is being built , but if you know that you are going to have to hire someone in the next two to four weeks , that's not a lie .

Speaker 3 3:24

Yeah , no , I agree . Okay but I agree with you .

Speaker 2 3:28

If you're trying to hire someone and you have the benefit of building your database , nothing wrong with that Great . If you're trying , yeah , if you're actually going to pull the trigger , if it's a natural , organic part of the process . But if you're just trying to get people into your system , do a talent community .

Speaker 1 3:49

Yeah , exactly that . One feels super self-serving . And number three they're kind of doing the employer version of casual job searching , where they are putting these job postings out there with no intent really to hire , unless the absolute perfect person applies .

Speaker 3 3:57

That is true , that happens .

Speaker 2 4:00

And so . But here's my thing with this yeah , because I don't have . I've never seen someone where they're like you know what . I may want to upgrade my marketing manager . Yeah , so I'm just going to leave it continuously open Because , unless it's a position where you're constantly filling , the odds of that employee seeing their own position posted on the website it's a high probability . So then you run the risk of , if you don't have a good person in the role , you need to actively work to replace them .

Speaker 3 4:32

Yeah , so where I actually have seen people do this is , if it is . I'm just going to make up a bad example here . There's a company that employs engineers . They have 50 engineers and they'd like to upgrade 20 of them , but they don't want to actively do any . They're going to post a job and hope that they get rockstar candidates in there , and if they do , they'll slowly upgrade those 20 .

Speaker 2 4:54

But I think that's different , and I'll tell you why . I'll tell you . Well , from the example I was talking about , what he's saying is like they have these positions open with no intent to actually hire you . Okay , my thing is , if you have it open and they're like , oh , you're a great person , if we get the right person in , then we will hire them .

Speaker 1 5:16

Yes .

Speaker 2 5:16

That's not a false job . Oh , I completely agree with you . So then there's nothing wrong with that having it continuously open , because you would always hire the right person that comes in Completely agree with you .

Speaker 3 5:25

Yeah , so this guy wrong . He positioned it wrong , wrong yeah .

Speaker 1 5:31

So , if you are an employer , I implore you to stop doing this . People are investing a lot of time in these job applications and , more importantly , putting a lot of hope into these job applications , which is a finite resource when you're job searching . If you don't intend to give these people a shot . Stop posting to jobs .

Speaker 1 5:48

He is a job seeker , if you are getting ghosted ? No , it's very likely not your fault . Now , to optimize your chance of actually getting hired when you happen to apply to real jobs , check out the resume resources in my bio .

Speaker 2 6:01

Interesting Mixed thoughts on that one . I think it brings up a really interesting point , but I do like some of the things that were said with so much confidence . I'm like is that really that common ? Or is what or is the real issue that the employer does not have a good internal recruitment process so they're not responding to candidates ? So you feel like you're being ghosted .

Speaker 3 6:24

So that's the whole other thing . Yeah , I would say it's . You're more likely to be ghosted by an employer with a really bad recruitment process than you are by somebody doing a ghost posting A hundred percent .

Speaker 2 6:37

Yeah , I like that Okay .

Speaker 5 6:39

Next one Okay , I asked a community of professionals what one piece of advice was that they've learned throughout their careers , and I'm going to share a few with you Document everything , save work , compliments , document , everything is one of the pieces of advice I give to people all the time .

Speaker 3 6:54

Really .

Speaker 2 6:54

Yes , oh I don't .

Speaker 5 6:57

Yes , listen to that . It's in a folder to look back on when you start to doubt yourself .

Speaker 3 7:01

Urgent , so well , first I will say that start to doubt yourself . Okay , so well , first I will say that so I actually have kept , like we do , core value awards and whenever I get to get get like somebody writes something nice about me , I have them and I go back and I read them .

Speaker 2 7:10

But you should yes , but you should also do that . If someone sends you an email and it's just the subtle , like , hey , you did a great job on this project or whatever Huge on that . But I will say , um , when I say document everything . Yeah , let me hear this so often it comes in this idea of like , oh , make sure you document for HR . Yeah , not the case .

Speaker 2 7:28

The biggest piece of advice I give to people is I say when you sit down in a meeting , especially if it's a one-on-one with your boss , and you're asking for feedback , or you say , hey , I'm struggling with this . Or like , especially in a time where , if you need something from your boss and maybe you're concerned about it or maybe not , whatever , um , or vice versa , like , if you're giving difficult feedback to someone , whether it's a peer , a direct employee , it doesn't matter I always say send a followup email . That just it doesn't . It can be super nice . Like , hey , thank you so much for hearing me out , great conversation , I appreciate your insights , whatever .

Speaker 2 8:03

But you literally say you say what you talked about . Yep , thank you for hearing me out on the feedback regarding to your communication skills . And here are the things , here are the next steps . And then you send it , okay , because so often I have been in a in a situation where I'm like I know we talked about that , yeah , and like you want to feel you don't want to like gaslight yourself , to be like , well , maybe it wasn't clear enough , or anything like that , or even just like you do have times where you have to go back and be like no boss , you forgot , but we talked about this , yeah , and I still need your help on this both ways , manager and managee . Yeah , okay , I document , I'm huge on that . So I think , or to put it another way , communicate clearly , communicate clearly .

Speaker 3 8:49

So what I think I'm hearing from you is documentation to close the loop , kind of a close-the-loop documentation , but now you have something that you can reference .

Speaker 2 8:56

Yes , it's documented , but it doesn't have to be like on May 17th we had a 32-minute discussion . It does not have to be like that .

Speaker 3 9:03

Yeah , I think

Work Culture and Work-Life Balance

Speaker 3 9:05

. What I think is an unhealthy work practice is this idea of you have to document everything to CYA . That is not . I would never tell somebody , oh , make sure you document that to CYA . That's just a bad work environment I wouldn't want to be in .

Speaker 2 9:18

That's why I do it I do . I do because it is because and this is the other thing is because it removes the he said , she said , and the what gets lost in memory . Yeah , because if you have a conversation , especially a difficult one , and then you write it down and say , hey , we talked about this , and you put it objectively , you say the facts and then say , and this is what we talked about for next steps , or how we're going to handle it , what you're going to own , what I'm going to own , it's not putting , you're not blasting anyone . Yeah , but then in three months , when you continue to have issues , then you may remember that conversation differently . But I'm like , hey , not only did I write it down , but like I sent it to you as like we talked about this . So now there's something that says , hey , we talked about this , we agreed to that . It is a level of CYA , but not because I don't trust you .

Speaker 3 10:08

So I think that's that's the difference , is explaining the why . So yeah , so okay , yes , document everything . Just don't tell people to document everything from a place of fear .

Speaker 2 10:22

Completely , but it's just . You know , we write our to-do list it's just a .

Speaker 1 10:23

You know what I mean .

Speaker 2 10:24

Like , it's just a way to like make sure you're remembering things . Yeah .

Speaker 5 10:29

I'm in for it . Let's do it . Urgent and important are not synonyms listen to understand , not to respond . You are replaceable at work , but not at home . It is okay to not know everything . Not all good things are good for you . Things Negotiate your job offers , always add a buffer when giving estimates , and work is something that you do not who you are .

Speaker 2 10:49

Okay , I love that . It's what you do , not who you are . I have stopped like in social settings . I no longer ask people what they do , yeah .

Speaker 3 10:58

At all Well , and it's it's so hard if you so strongly identify with work .

Speaker 2 11:02

Well , what I ask ? I say tell me about you , yeah , because then they can choose . Do they want to tell me about their job ? Do they want to tell me that they went traveling last week ? Do they you know ? Yeah , yeah , no , I like that . Yeah , there was one she said that was oh , huge .

Speaker 3 11:15

Oh my God , Give buffers when giving estimates . Yes , give buffers . Give yourself a little bit of grace in your buffers . That's a CYA as well . Yeah , oh , I don't do CYA , I just do great work all the time You're like I'm perfect , it's fine , don't need it .

Speaker 2 11:31

Cool , love it , love it .

Speaker 5 11:33

Love it Love .

Speaker 4 11:35

Just to give people in other countries an example of what job descriptions in America look like . We work hard , not because we have to , but because we want to . We don't expect you to work 24-7 , but you are expected to do what needs to be done to move the needle in your role .

Speaker 2 11:57

Go ahead . So as a marketer I have the benefit of my job is not tied to a nine to five desk , like if you're working at a front desk or if you're a recruiter . Your job is to be available . So I am a big believer that you know what . There are times you have an event coming up , you have a campaign that's being launched you're going to have to put in the time because you have a specific job to get done . But this whole idea of like the job get done yeah , the absolute , like ballsiness oh my God , it's not 24-7 , but you basically just need to make sure it's 18-5 .

Speaker 3 12:40

It's 18-6 . It's 18-6 . It's 18-6 . Gosh yeah .

Speaker 2 12:46

I'm already sweaty from this . This is like stressing me out .

Speaker 3 12:49

Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 4 12:49

All right , okay , keep going . If you're selected to work with us , you're not accepting a 9-to-5 punch-in , punch-out job and we certainly are not a company where you'd expect to completely disconnect every week . Stop , stop stop , stop .

Speaker 3 13:05

Do you not want anybody to apply to your job ? This isn't an arranged marriage .

Speaker 2 13:10

Wow , yeah also how like for you I want to .

Speaker 3 13:14

There are some people who are listening to this and they're like , yes , this job is , job is for me .

Speaker 2 13:19

I just Maybe there's not . Well , I think there are people who like love the grind . Yeah , like you can't be an entrepreneur without having some of that like grind mentality , and that's great , but especially in a business , not everyone .

Speaker 3 13:38

Not everybody should need to grind all the time .

Speaker 2 13:41

You need your like steady eddies who show up and do the job . So to have this idea of like we all just going to hustle , yeah , Then then you're understaffed and burnt out .

Speaker 3 13:49

Yeah , oh , all right .

Speaker 4 13:51

Clients or team members are counting on you to keep the ball rolling . Although we encourage setting boundaries and creating space to relax and recharge when you love what you do , you don't need to escape from work .

Speaker 3 14:05

Okay , unless my job is a professional online shopper . I need to escape from work . What ?

Speaker 2 14:11

What this is where I think Is such an interesting disconnect . I understand Again , if you're the owner of a company company , or if you're a senior leader in the company , your job is to care about the success of the company . Yes , everybody should care . Yes , but the stakes are much higher if you are an owner , obviously .

Speaker 2 14:33

And when you get promoted up into a leadership role , part of the expectation is that you're like you have a different . It's part of your job now , yes , yes . And so to have this idea that you want every single person to have the same level of buy-in and the same level of commitment , it's are you paying your people the same as you'd ?

Speaker 3 14:54

pay a leader in your company . Yeah , as you pay your executives .

Speaker 2 14:55

Like what's ? Why would they care that much ?

Speaker 3 14:57

Yeah , it's really bad .

Speaker 2 15:01

It's really like . This is like toxic ex-boyfriend situation .

Speaker 3 15:06

Like every level . I have never met anybody who's like oh my God , I love my job so much I don't ever need a break from it . It doesn't matter what your job is Like at some point you need a break from it . You need a break .

Speaker 2 15:21

Like this is brainwashing . Well , the other thing is , I think it misses out on . How do you , as a manager , it is my job to like translate expectations to and from my team members . Yes , and so I want people who are hustlers , like if you look at my team , like they're committed , they're hardworking , they put in the time , they do the work , but that doesn't mean that they're doing it you translate it for the work that they're doing .

Speaker 2 15:53

I'm like , okay , this needs to get done . This is the expectation . I need you to be on top of it . Let's do this . Let's make it happen .

Speaker 3 15:59

And part of the reason people can sustain the hustle is because of their ability to disconnect and the ability to escape from work .

Speaker 2 16:05

I think hustle should only be applied to people who are building their own thing . Okay , I'm a big fan of hustle . I mean , I think hustle in the sense of you do good work , you move fast yeah , there's that , yeah . But this whole hustle culture thing , okay , unless you're building your own company and it's like you do like this , like you grind , like yeah no , why would you , why would any person opt to do that ?

Speaker 3 16:27

I mean , there , there needs to be some significant payout .

Speaker 2 16:29

Well , there has to be , and I guess in that sense then the hustle is cause I've I hustled early in my career and it yeah , and it paid off .

Speaker 2 16:38

Yeah , but I was investing in myself . So this idea of like I put in the time because I grew from it , I had opportunities come from it . Yeah , but like I learned very early in my career that I was not going to work all weekend long every weekend , yeah , because I was like that doesn't further me , that just gets more things off the to-do list . So that doesn't further me , that just gets more things off the to-do list . So I'll hustle when I'm like , okay , this is going to again open doors , challenge me , whatever . But if it's just the work that needs to get done , I can do that tomorrow .

Speaker 3 17:06

Yeah , that can wait , that can wait . Interesting .

Speaker 4 17:11

That's my opinion , doing what you love feels like a vacation . Okay , and when you do have some time off , you're still thinking about your work because you're obsessed with it in a healthy way .

Speaker 3 17:24

Legit , is this a job advertisement for a cult Like I ? Honestly , that's what it sounds like this is crazy .

Speaker 2 17:30

That's kind of I have a similar reaction when they're like we're all family here , stop it . Like I want to enjoy being around you , yes . Like we can be friends yeah . But this idea that like we're family here , yeah , stop it . Like I want to enjoy being around you , yes . Like we can be friends yeah . But this idea that like we're family , like no guys , we're in a business .

Speaker 1 17:43

Yeah , we're in a business Like we got to like let's have a healthy way .

Speaker 3 17:48

Oh my God , yeah , no , that's just awful oh my gosh .

Speaker 2 17:53

Yeah , if you're like hey , I need someone who's a hustler Like this is where it is point of high growth . It's going to be high demand , it's like you're going to have weekends or whatever .

Speaker 3 18:02

Yeah , so how would you describe that ? Yeah , so I've got an exciting opportunity for a person who is very motivated to help us get the business to the next level in order to get here . That's what this means .

Speaker 2 18:15

Yeah , Boom , boom boom . I , that's what this means , yeah , boom , boom . I think that's it . It's like hey , we're high growth , who has a bunch of big projects yes , and you'll be compensated .

Speaker 3 18:21

The upside for this work is a , b . I'm hitting your table . The upside for this is boom , boom , boom one year when we hit our x goal , whatever , yeah I mean show a trade-off . You you have to show people what's in it for them .

Speaker 2 18:38

I agree , and I think you also have to be honest about what jobs are actually critical to the hustle Exactly and how do you staff it appropriately , exactly . Yes , because you know what . I think that's . The other thing that kind of is in the back of my mind is are they doing this because ? They can get 80 hours Well it's like you can now get 80 hours of work out of someone , so you don't have to hire two people . Yeah Well , that's no good .

Speaker 3 19:01

And that's my point is saying like why is this such a hustle ? Interesting , very interesting .

Speaker 2 19:07

Yeah .

Speaker 3 19:07

I really want to know who this employer is .

Speaker 2 19:09

I wonder if you Googled her exact phrase . I feel like we need to .

Speaker 3 19:12

Maybe it would pull up . Yeah , you should contact them about some branding work .

Speaker 2 19:15

It's like , hey , no , that's a cultural issue .

Speaker 3 19:18

That's a larger . Oh , you know what ? You're right , yeah , that is way bigger than just branding .

Speaker 2 19:23

Hey , dina , I'm starting a company . Oh , yes , it's all about the hustle . Oh , you're going to have to work like 70 hours a day . Oh , I prefer 80 .

Speaker 3 19:29

That's totally fine , it's within my wheel . Wow , that was fun .

Speaker 2 19:36

Yes , I do like our .

Speaker 3 19:38

that was a hot take though . Yeah , yeah , no , it was a . It was really good hot take .

Speaker 2 19:41

Cool , well , dina , hey , thank you , thank you , thank you .

Speaker 3 19:45

Till we meet again . Bye , bye , bye , bye .