SPEAKER_02: 0:06

Welcome to Real Talk on Talent, a human resources podcast where we talk about talent acquisition, recruiting, and all things hiring. Hey Dina. Hey Hillary. Welcome back. It's a pleasure to be here. It's been a while. It has been a while. I always like being here with you, though. I like being here with you. Um, I am both excited. There's such synergy between us. I was just about to say that I'm really excited and very nervous about this topic today. Tell me why. For exactly that reason you just started with.

SPEAKER_01: 0:40

Okay. Our synergies? Yes. Well, let's just dive right into it.

SPEAKER_02: 0:46

So today we're talking about buzzwords.

SPEAKER_01: 0:49

Buzzwords.

SPEAKER_02: 0:50

Corporate jargon, the things we all love to hate and hate to love. Yeah. Yes, we are. How do we want to start with this? Because I'm just worried you're just going to throw jargon at me. I probably am.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00

You know what? I mean, let's double-click into what it is that we really do we need boundaries in this conversation. It's probably a good way to do. How about if I say something that makes you uncomfortable? We can parking lot that for later.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16

So okay, let's talk about why this is such a like like this buzzwords. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22

Why are they everywhere? So, well, we've recently uncovered some articles, which first of all, if it's on the internet, it is the truth. Can't lie on the internet. We all know that to be facts. Correct. But um, we already know that corporate speak exists. So, but let's start there. Okay. Why? Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39

I'm not asking for like an actual historic reason. Okay, like in your experience in the corporate world, why do you think we default into these like corporate sayings and like jargony words and they oh, I've got a couple of ideas here.

SPEAKER_01: 1:52

A, they have universally accepted meanings, which they can kind of almost become a universal language. One, two, they're sometimes nicer than saying the actual thing that you made.

SPEAKER_02: 2:03

I think that's fair, but I think there's a difference between framing a statement in a professional way, which is that second thing you talked about, uh-huh. But the first one where there are all these like idioms or analogies. Oh, yeah. Like tops of the waves, tip of the spear, like it's not actually clearer. Oh, this is my favorite. Um, you don't want to be the long pole in a tent. I need to think about that one. Correct. That's my point. It means you're holding everybody up.

SPEAKER_01: 2:35

Oh, interesting. It's harder to say, it's not super clear, but it's common. People love to say it. So, yeah, so I mean, I think we have to um first, if you're gonna use an idiom or whatever you're gonna use, make sure people understand what it means. So don't tell me I need to be the long pole in the tent. No, you don't want to be the long pole. I don't want to be. Yeah, we're gonna strike that once and twice.

SPEAKER_02: 2:53

Okay, strike that strike that. But I think that's interesting. It's almost like like how regions have different language, like nuances or idiosyncrasies in corporate worlds. It's like you hear something that sounds nice, sounds cool.

SPEAKER_01: 3:09

Well, and then I think if you're in an organization and everybody is saying tip of the spear, yeah, yeah, you're naturally gonna say tip of a spear. So it's almost kind of it's kind of like we're it's like a stereotype. Almost follow me here.

SPEAKER_02: 3:22

Yeah, no, you're right, because I'd never heard that before I came to human. And especially when I started at Human six years ago, it was used all the time. Yeah. And I have never once used it. Mm-hmm. Good for you. It's just there's something uncomfortable about it. I'm with you. I'm with you there. Okay. Yeah. That is interesting. I appreciate that insight there. Do you use buzz like corporate jargon?

SPEAKER_01: 3:43

So I didn't realize I did until my husband called me out. Oh no, what do you call out? I was um first one time I said double clicked and I cringed on myself. I was like, oh no, dude, you should said that stuff. Double click on that. Um, apparently, what I say, and I don't think this is that that much of a you know jargony term, but I always say, I'm gonna give you a high-level overview. A high level overview. Literally, every time I walk out of a call, he's like, Did you give another high-level overview? I'm like, I think I just did deny. I'm sorry. Yeah, so I do a lot of high-level overviews. Do a lot of high-level overviews. What about you?

SPEAKER_02: 4:21

I don't know. I'm sure I do. I can't I can't think of anything specific that I go back to. I'll have to, I'll have to noodle on that. What?

SPEAKER_01: 4:32

There we go. There we go. I don't know. Yeah, I remember a couple years ago, bespoke.

SPEAKER_02: 4:38

Oh my gosh. You know, that is an interesting one when you think about industry-specific sayings. Yes. Because double click and bespoke. Uh-huh. We have seen a lot in like the private equity venture capital space. Yes, we have. But with in like the hospital like systems where we work, nobody's saying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 4:55

So that is it, yeah. You make a really good point. There are certainly industry-specific buzzwords. So how would you okay?

SPEAKER_02: 5:02

Let's pretend you start a company. Uh-huh. You have a bunch of new hires. Okay. Do you use buzzwords in for these fresh like employees who've never been exposed? For these green beans?

SPEAKER_01: 5:16

I don't know. So yes, is your industry? Is that a buzzword? Green beans? I don't know. Maybe that's the same. I don't know if it's corporate specific. Yeah, corporate. It is now. Boom. Um, so if I do use it, I use it accidentally and inadvertently. Can we talk about my favorite topic? Please. The you the sayings you made up. Oh, I make a lot of them. You make a lot. Yeah. I make a so these should be trademarked, just FYI. I want to make sure that that does happen. Uh, I like um back of the math envelope. Yeah, very important. And I want you guys to think about how that works for a little bit. It does. Okay. Okay. Good. What else? I mean, because who actually has an envelope? So do it on the back of the math instead.

unknown: 5:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 5:54

You can't justify it, do you? Um, no, you absolutely can't. Um, I have hit the wall running several times. That is my absolute favorite. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:02

Hit the wall running. Uh-huh. Um, and then also I really like it's another um quiver another quiver in your toolbox.

SPEAKER_01: 6:09

Another quiver in your tool belt.

unknown: 6:11

So that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01: 6:12

I mean, there are all these sayings to say the same thing, but they're all just so arbitrary. Who has quivers? Why are why is anybody talking about a quiver? I mean, it's gotta come from a historic people. I mean, I get that it does, but why is a quiver coming up in modern day speaking? I mean, I don't know. I don't have my arrows strapped over my shoulder. I keep them in my tool belt instead. Oh, Whitney for the wind.

SPEAKER_00: 6:33

Corporate jargon emerged as a byproduct of the cultural and professional integration of military veterans into the American business world post-World War II.

SPEAKER_01: 6:45

Interesting. Interesting. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00: 6:48

So tip of the spear is quite appropriate.

SPEAKER_01: 6:50

I see that. Hmm.

SPEAKER_02: 6:52

Okay, I would want to talk a little bit because that is very interesting to think that if you have what year did you say that was?

SPEAKER_00: 6:58

It was during World War II. World War II.

SPEAKER_02: 7:00

Post-World War II. I'm saying 1947. Yep. So if you think the 50s, uh-huh, like late 40s, early 50s, you start to have military come in. And then Whitney was telling us about how people using AI today to help craft different materials. And I'm not blaming marketers 100%, because marketers can do no wrong, in my opinion. Yeah. But if you're going in, apparently the article was that if you mark like you have people go in to create business documents and they're inputting these business jargons into AI, which is then feeding the data set, so then AI is pumping out results. Yes. Using the jargon.

SPEAKER_01: 7:41

It's just reinforcing it, re-proliferating the message. So why does it bug me so much? You know, for me personally, it's a lack of originality. That's a good point. It's a lack of originality. And um, oftentimes, I, you know, in case you didn't know this, I can be a little bit direct, Hillary. I feel like they're just you're hiding behind, you're hiding behind a phrase. You're not talking about it. Get comfortable saying what you actually mean.

SPEAKER_02: 8:05

I think that's a really valid point. I have a similar feeling on the buzzword side, because I kind of differentiate that corporate speak is like those sayings and phrases, and then buzzwords is where you throw out fancy, like bespoke. Yes. And I, if someone who overuses buzzwords, I question if they actually know what they're talking about.

SPEAKER_01: 8:29

No, I could see that.

SPEAKER_02: 8:30

Because if you just come in and you're talking about synergy and you're talking about optimization, and those words what about your velocity? Well, those words can be correct in the right like cases, but if you're just laboring, reach into my purse and throw out every buzzword I thought they're gonna be. Then I'm gonna be like, okay, explain it to me like I'm a kindergartner. And if you can't without using bud buzzwords, then you just have words that make you sound fancy, and I'm gonna question if you actually know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01: 8:54

Perhaps they're just pontificating at that point.

SPEAKER_02: 8:56

But pontificating is a great word.

SPEAKER_01: 8:57

That's not a good one. It's not a buzzword. Correct. It's a real legitimate word. As opposed to a made-up word.

SPEAKER_02: 9:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 9:03

Yes. I think we should have fun with buzzwords. I think we should have fun with corporate speak. I think we should play a game.

SPEAKER_02: 9:12

I think we should play a game first. I'm still in. No, I know, but first I want to ask you. Okay. Do you explain jargon to new employees or do you just let them learn by osmosis? Osmosis. Really? Yeah, osmosis. I mean.

SPEAKER_00: 9:27

There is an argument that using corporate jargon is actually uh a kind of an off-handed way of making younger workers not feel included.

SPEAKER_01: 9:36

Ah, interesting. Um, that would require too much effort on my part. I don't the the effort to not include somebody is more than the effort to include. Um, I think that's keep going. Yeah, yeah. Keep going. So, so I think of myself coming up. Um, if I was in a meeting and somebody said something and I didn't understand what they were saying, I would do one of two things. I would stop and go, excuse me, can you explain that to me? Or I would write it down and I would go look it up later. So for me, if you don't understand something, um, perhaps it's not right to stop an entire meeting and pivot and explain that to you. It's an opportunity for an individual to be resourceful and do a bit of self-learning.

SPEAKER_02: 10:14

Yeah. That's real I completely agree on that. But I think Whitney brings up an interesting point that there's this generations create the work culture. Okay. And then when you enter the workplace, especially if it's a like traditional work like environment, uh-huh, then you have to adapt into that. Yes. And that includes what you like what you wear, how you speak, how you show up, like your respect for hierarchy. And if you are a leader in a company and you speak with like in confusing ways, or you kind of expect people to step in line, then you really are just perpetuating this, like you have to earn your stripes basically to be able to fit in. And that includes even being able to understand what's happening. Yeah, yeah. So I wonder if people tend to perpetuate it because it makes them feel like, oh, now I'm on the inn.

SPEAKER_01: 11:01

Now that I'm on the inn.

SPEAKER_02: 11:02

I get it, I'm here, I understand. I can use the phrase tops of the waves and under and like it's in context. I wonder if there's almost this subconscious like rite of passage. Really? I'm just I mean, no, I'm I'm pontificating.

SPEAKER_01: 11:15

You are. Um, it's delightful.

SPEAKER_02: 11:18

I don't know. I mean, yeah, so and maybe that's why it bugs me so much because there's a level of like um like not presumptiveness, um like superiority. Yeah, yeah. Like if you use these phrases, it's because like, oh, I'm in charge.

SPEAKER_01: 11:35

Like I have the experience to use that.

SPEAKER_02: 11:37

And maybe that's why it annoys me because it's like that's not you, that's just what you've learned by mirroring other people.

SPEAKER_00: 11:44

Okay, I see where you're going. You bring up a fine point, Hillary. There is an assistant professor at Hong Kong University, uh Zachariah Brown. He explains that the desire for status is in the workplace, is why we use those uh corporate jargon words. Um, language is one of the mechanisms of showing off how you demonstrate that you're competent and capable.

SPEAKER_01: 12:09

Yeah, interesting. Yeah, you know what? That that to me is yes, but that's where you have to look beyond the surface. Because to the point you made earlier, there are people who can speak all the keywords and there's no substance behind this.

SPEAKER_02: 12:22

So um so but but I guess that's the point is like, so instead of just absorbing the culture of tip of the spear, what are you actually trying to say and tell the group that? See, like that's my point. I think it's kind of the same thing is you I can see why someone would mirror their boss if their boss was successful and they use these phrases. I mean, not to pick on a specific industry, but double click is used in one specific industry from what I have seen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:54

I've only double clicked in one industry before. Uh-huh. Correct. Uh-huh. Have you guys double clicked anywhere?

unknown: 13:00

No.

SPEAKER_01: 13:00

No, see, they're not in that industry. There we go. You know what? I think we should do control alt-delete on that. Great.

SPEAKER_02: 13:07

I don't want my own. No, we brought we kind of went to a space that I hadn't really considered. Okay. I will say this. I think that I am breaking the cycle with my team. Okay, tell me more. I I don't think, and someone would have to validate if this is right or not. I don't think I use very many like idioms and business sayings and I don't think you do either.

SPEAKER_01: 13:32

Yeah. I don't think you're either. Yes. Come as you are. Yeah. I I would kind of say I'm breaking the mold as well. But it's simply because of my inability to effectively articulate idioms. We know I can do makeup my own time.

SPEAKER_02: 13:48

That is the way to take the power back. Exactly. Take the power back. I'm I'm not engaging, but you are, you're gonna repurpose for yourself. This is the tips of the mountain.

SPEAKER_01: 14:00

Got it. Got it. Ready to go. Nailed it. All right, Danny. Do you want to play the game? I want to play a game. Okay. Let's do it. Boom. Bada ba. We're playing a game. I'm stuck. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 14:12

Um, okay, so instead of doing hot takes for hot topics, what we're going to do is I have written down phrases that should not be used in the professional workplace and like traditional professional workplace. And I'm gonna share it with Dina to then translate into corporate jargon. Okay. And then what do you have?

SPEAKER_01: 14:37

I have written down corporate jargon and Hillary is going to translate to everyday speak.

SPEAKER_02: 14:44

Okay. All right. Well, you want to start? Sure. Okay. First up, shut up.

SPEAKER_01: 14:50

Shut up. Maybe let's put that in the parking lot. Um, let's take that offline. That's my favorite. We could circle back on that later. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02: 15:01

I also really like um like I I really appreciate your insights. Can can we hold on that for now? Great. Yeah. Love it. Love it. Perfect. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 15:14

Low hanging fruit.

SPEAKER_02: 15:18

Um, low-hanging fruit is an easy win or something that you can do quickly, easily with a like good result. It's something that it's like, what can we do? Get a quick win and then keep moving forward. Excellent. Yes. All right. I'm not your secretary.

SPEAKER_01: 15:38

Let me redirect you. Allow me to redirect you. Here, you know who could help you better with this? Let me point you in the right direction on that one.

SPEAKER_02: 15:46

Yep. Yes. Love that.

SPEAKER_01: 15:47

Yes. Okay. I actually am a huge fan of the redirect and connect.

SPEAKER_02: 15:51

Yes. And I think for women, it makes us uncomfortable. Oh my gosh. Well, because we like to help. But it's the best thing is to say, let me help you find the right person. The right person. Or the person who can get you that answer the fastest.

SPEAKER_01: 16:02

Yes. I remember. We're going to go on a tangent. Please do. So at Human, one thing we do is we offer incredible customer service. But what that often means is scope creep. And it's it can be scope creep to a detriment.

SPEAKER_02: 16:14

Keep going, then we're defining scope creep. Okay. Because I think that's a jargon that it is.

SPEAKER_01: 16:20

Um so I did a training called redirect and connect. And that was the name of the training. And I was telling everybody, listen, you you are a recruiter, you are not running background checks on individuals. So when somebody's asking you to interpret a background check, you politely redirect and connect them with the appropriate resource. Great, Dina. Thank you. That's corporate jargon. Okay, uh, redirect. Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 16:42

Scope creep for our um entry employees is essentially hear the the bounds of the project, and you're asking for things that slowly expand the bounds of project or responsibility. So the scope of the project is being creeped. So they creep. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:03

Okay. Whose turn is it? Uh mine, I think, maybe to show you the cards. We did. Um yeah. Okay. This one, this is my least favorite of all of them.

SPEAKER_02: 17:13

Double click. Okay, so we've talked about this one already. It is essentially going a level deeper on a certain topic. Yes. So if you say there's topic A, and you it's literally like double click a folder. So it's a newer, it's a newer one that came out of the digital age. You literally double click to open the folder to be able to get into all the details, the nuances, talk about it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01: 17:36

I would just prefer to say tell me more.

SPEAKER_02: 17:38

Oh, good throwback, Dina.

SPEAKER_01: 17:40

There we go.

SPEAKER_02: 17:41

All right. Give me more money.

SPEAKER_01: 17:46

Oh. Somebody could teach me the appropriate way to say this. That's what I'm saying. No, you're good at this, Dina. I know this. Um, you know, the value that I'm bringing to the team is a bit more than what I'm bringing home. Oh, God, no, I am not the right person to ask this one.

SPEAKER_02: 18:00

Um I would I would like to talk about my financial compensation and the different ways, the variable compensation structures that we can set up or we can that you can provide me.

SPEAKER_01: 18:12

Yeah, yeah. I would like to talk about, yeah, I mean we can do some one-on-one coaching on this one. I'll help you out with this one.

SPEAKER_02: 18:19

I think the big thing, here's what I'd like to make. What I would recommend is to say what are the compensation opportunities, or how can we get creative with what compensation is based off of the work and performance I am doing. There we go. Give me money. Boom.

SPEAKER_01: 18:34

Yep. Boom. You can also cry. I've heard that works. You could cry. I don't think that would work here. I've never tried it. I have, don't cry. It doesn't work. Uh, we've kind of already talked about this one too.

SPEAKER_02: 18:45

Bespoke, but it is okay. So bespoke is essentially something that is customized or configured. Custom. It's usually for a client. It's just custom. I know, but it comes from this idea of like the artisian world where like bespoke is built for you. And so it's I this idea of not just we have this and configure it for you, but like this was built for you. It's just a pretentious way of saying it fits your needs. Yes, concur. Oh, my turn. Your turn. Told you so. Hmm. Oh man, you are making these really difficult. Because I know that you have said this in your head so many times.

SPEAKER_01: 19:24

Should we do a post-mortem on that? Oh, that's a good idea. Wait, but I don't think I don't think that maybe that covers that. Um I know. So post what you don't have though, postmortem. That's a whole thing. Pre-mortem.

SPEAKER_02: 19:38

Basically, postmortem is just revisiting a project after it's done to identify how it could have been better. Yes. Told you so. Let's see. I would probably say um something along the lines of like I had anticipated, we had discussed, I try to stay away from I. We discussed this potential outcome. Yeah. Or, you know, this was part of this email thread identified this potential outcome. And it also, hopefully, therefore, it can show us how to get out of it because we discussed it in that email. AKA it came from me. I knew the answer. That's one way to do it.

SPEAKER_01: 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 20:17

But that only works if you actually told them so. If you told them so, which you should.

SPEAKER_01: 20:21

Yes, which you should. So the Dina approach here would be um if you look at that email I sent on August 20th, you can see where I clearly articulated that that was this was a possibility. That is actually real, that's better than mine. So let's take a minute to reflect on what we're gonna learn from this. You're amazing.

SPEAKER_02: 20:38

That's so good. No, but that's why we have Dina, because we need people who are more comfortable being direct, as opposed to me, where it's like, I'm gonna place the facts in front of you and hope you see your well, that's because you're the marketer.

SPEAKER_01: 20:49

You tell the nice story. Tell the nice story. I'm more pragmatic in my approach.

SPEAKER_02: 20:53

Correct.

SPEAKER_01: 20:53

Well, and that's why you're an operator and a salesperson. And you know what? And this is why we have such good synergy.

SPEAKER_02: 21:04

Also, synergistic synergistic is another one where it's like, okay. So synergy is I think it's mused incorrectly. I would agree with this, but essentially just means that we're working together for something so that it all works together better.

SPEAKER_01: 21:24

Better, like us coming together, there's extra value coming out. It's like one plus one equals three.

SPEAKER_02: 21:30

Yeah, greater than the sum of your parts. Yeah. Like, but it's really like I think the idea is it's almost like finding ways for people to come together, work together well, and then therefore have really efficient results. We need to find synergies. Yeah, we do. Agreed. All right, here you go. Okay. Are you an idiot?

SPEAKER_01: 21:51

I I would not ask that one. No, you don't say that. Yeah, no, I don't know. Sometimes you have to ask. That is is that not appropriate? That's totally appropriate. So um let me.

SPEAKER_02: 22:04

Can you can you restate that for me? Because I think I'm misunderstanding you. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:09

Huh. And how do you think the audience is going to receive that? Yes, I love that one. Well, what's the anticipated impact of this?

SPEAKER_02: 22:17

Have you talked to anybody else about that idea? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:20

Yeah. Go home and ask your husband what he thinks about that one.

SPEAKER_02: 22:24

That's so good. I love it, Dina.

SPEAKER_01: 22:27

Oh gosh. Uh oh, one more. Oh, there is one more? One more for me. Again.

SPEAKER_02: 22:32

Parking lot.

SPEAKER_01: 22:33

So parking lot. So to me, this is just a way of saying your idea is bad. No, not to me. Okay, you do.

SPEAKER_02: 22:41

Maybe only your bad ideas get put in the parking lot. So the way that I see the parking lot working the most is when you are in a meeting and someone is taking notes, uh-huh. Especially if it's a brainstorming meeting. Okay. And so people are throwing out ideas or a topic comes up and the group agrees that is an important topic, but it is distracting us from the purpose of this meeting. Of this meeting. So in the document where you're taking notes, literally have a list where you just dump, like just put that idea down on that list so it's remembered, but it doesn't distract from today. And then when and then we can circle back.

SPEAKER_01: 23:16

How did we not talk about these? Let's circle back.

SPEAKER_02: 23:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:19

So I think the thing with a parking lot is if you are going to put something in the parking lot, it needs to be very clearly articulated at the beginning of the meeting that there is a parking lot. Yeah. Because you just can't create a parking lot in the middle of the meeting and be like, we're gonna parking lot this idea. I wasn't aware there was a parking lot in this meeting. Well, there isn't. Because that is saying that your idea is no good. We're not gonna listen to it.

SPEAKER_02: 23:38

Or it's either let's put it in the parking lot or hey, can we take that offline? Can we take that offline? Yeah. Yep. Awesome. Okay. Dina.

SPEAKER_01: 23:49

That was great.

SPEAKER_02: 23:49

This was fun. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 23:51

I look forward to reconnecting with that.